Peerless Cream Cheese Cinnamon Roll, Buzzard's Roost, and a 2019 Pappy 23 Tasting; Ep. 82
Dan welcomes Calvin and Nick back home for a bourbon-heavy catch-up that mixes recent distillery trips, barrel picks, and a standout tasting lineup. The episode is especially notable for a 2019 Pappy 23 pour that Preston Van Winkle personally identified by nose as Bernheim-era juice, plus a deep dive into what makes Buzzard's Roost's double-oaked approach unique.
#bourbon #whiskey #bourbontasting #singlebarrel #bourbonbrassandbeyond #pappy #pappyvanwinkle #pappyandco #buzzardsroost #peerless #oldripvanwinkle #pappy23 #pappycigars #drewestate #podcast
Dan welcomes Calvin and Nick back home for a bourbon-heavy catch-up that mixes recent distillery trips, barrel picks, and a standout tasting lineup. The episode is especially notable for a 2019 Pappy 23 pour that Preston Van Winkle personally identified by nose as Bernheim-era juice, plus a deep dive into what makes Buzzard's Roost's double-oaked approach unique.
#bourbon #whiskey #bourbontasting #singlebarrel #bourbonbrassandbeyond #pappy #pappyvanwinkle #pappyandco #buzzardsroost #peerless #oldripvanwinkle #pappy23 #pappycigars #drewestate #podcast
We discuss recent Kentucky visits, craft bourbon exploration, and how barrel char, toast, and proof shape flavor. The conversation also covers a Peerless cream cheese cinnamon roll single barrel, a Buzzard's Roost bourbon, and a rye that lands with mint, spice, and a long finish. Dan recaps the Kentucky trip with Steph, including the Preston Van Winkle interview (Episode 81) and the challenge of recovering lost audio after a hardware failure.
The group tastes a Peerless distillery-only single barrel described as a cream cheese cinnamon roll profile, with sweet cinnamon on the nose and a thick, creamy mouthfeel.
Calvin and Nick compare tasting notes on craft bottles from JT Mellick, Fiddler, Jimmy Red, and High Wire, using them to narrow down what flavor profiles they actually prefer.
Dan highlights a W. H. McBrayer 1776 bottle.
Buzzard's Roost founder Jason Brauner is praised for an informative session about barrel char, toast levels, and the brand's double-oaked process.
The Buzzard's Roost bourbon shows French oak-like spice, rich sweetness, and subtle oak tannin, with the group noting that the sweetness stays in control.
The Buzzard's Roost rye, a 95/5 mash bill, comes across with mint, spearmint tea, rye spice, and a lingering floral finish.
Dan summarizes the haul from the Kentucky trip, including Peerless, Jefferson's, Trackside, Michter's 10 Rye, Elijah Craig private barrel, Maker's Mark Cask Strength 46, Monks Road, and Old Forester 117 Triple Char.
The centerpiece of the episode is a 2019 Pappy Van Winkle 23 Year, signed by Preston Van Winkle after he correctly identified the juice as Bernheim just by smell.
The episode closes on the value of shared bottles, personal stories, and tasting as a group rather than keeping rare pours sealed away.
Timestamps
00:00 - Back home, recent Kentucky trip, and the Preston Van Winkle interview
02:00 - Peerless cream cheese cinnamon roll single barrel introduction
03:03 - Buzzard's Roost and an informative deep dive on char and toast
08:15 - Exploring craft whiskey to find preferred flavor profiles
09:09 - W. H. McBrayer 1776 and the appeal of limited releases
11:46 - Buying more than tasting and the trap of bourbon hauls
12:16 - Fiddler, ASW, and craft whiskey recommendations
13:23 - Buzzard's Roost's distillate and double-oaked approach
14:30 - How barrel char and toast levels shape flavor
16:41 - Chocolate pairing and oak tannin on the Buzzard's Roost bourbon
18:28 - Steph's pick and the transition to the rye
20:17 - Jason Brauner's rye goal: a bourbon drinker's rye
26:17 - Kentucky trip haul: Peerless, Jefferson's, Michter's, Maker's Mark, and more
28:10 - Preston Van Winkle signs the Pappy 23 bottle
30:04 - The story behind Pappy cigars and the traditional blend
31:41 - Pappy 23 proof and the aromatic nose
33:33 - Why the Pappy 23 tastes so smooth despite its age
35:17 - Debating whether Pappy 23 is overoaked
39:19 - Bernheim, Stitzel-Weller, and the transition to Buffalo Trace sourcing
41:06 - Touring Preston Van Winkle's office and bourbon history on display
42:28 - Thanksgiving turkeys, old Fitzgerald, and bourbon family stories
44:18 - Upcoming bottles still waiting to be opened
Dan, Calvin, and Nick: Good evening. Welcome back to Bourbon Brass and Beyond. We're back home. And today I'm with Calvin and Nick. And we're gonna try to taste some of the spoils of war. We've been away for a while. Yeah. How's everything going, guys? Good. American dream. Yeah. Steph and I went down to Kentucky. We did the Preston Van Winkle interview and twice. Twice Yeah. so I think I have the mics figured out at least for now. we went back down to one camera instead of two. and it changed the way I've hooked it up. So hopefully we don't have any issues. So if at any point we don't see the green line moving when you're talking, that's a problem. Yeah. If only I would have had this screen to show me that Yeah. well no this footage is just as valuable as the the Preston Van Winkle footage, you know. So we'll we'll let you know. Exactly. but yeah, so we did an hour and a half podcast on Monday with Preston and then we're outside for a half hour or so doing the Pappy Twenty three and the cigars. And the next morning Steph was sleeping and I got up and went down and was drinking coffee. I'm like, I'll start, you know, playing seeing how I can put this together and after the first two and a half minutes it went dead. It sank. Yeah. man, I was crushed. Just and I did everything trying to find it. And it was just whatever it was was a it was a hardware issue. So whether it was my splitter, on the cameras or or or whatnot, it just didn't work. So I think I have an alternative now and pretty happy with that. but on Wednesday what we also did is on Tuesday we went to Peerless and they had this cinnamon roll. Single barrel is what they called it. yeah, they put the cream cheese cinnamon roll. Okay. And I I liked it, so grabbed that. You got to try it while you were there or yeah, okay. All right. Yeah. And then I didn't realize I thought I just walked in thirty seconds ago. I thought that was the Ohio single barrel recently, but Okay, so that was the one you got down. All right. Distillery only. So it's even better. Yeah. And then on Wednesday, after doing the interview with Preston, w and the we went and met Jason Brauner, the founder of Buzzards Roost and Master Blender and one of the most informative podcasts I've I've done talking about chars and toasting of the barrels and you know so everything Buzzard's Roost does is double oaked. Okay. I saw it did you put the full I saw some clips of of you guys talking. Yeah, I don't know if you put the full one out yet. Yep, I did. A little behind right now. But Yeah, I did. And so I thieved this one. the label on it. That's a fun experience. Yeah. Yeah. You can't be thieving your own barrel. Yeah. So I guess proof wise, you know, the peerless is one eight point eight. The buzzer trust is one fourteen point eight. So start with Start us out. Sir. Yes, sir. Hmm. Cream cheese cinnamon. Yes. Does have kind of sweet nose to it. Yeah. Yeah. I am getting a getting that cream cheese nose. So one of the things Preston taught us was that he blows into the glass. I don't know if I'm that coordinated. Mm. I'm getting the cinnamon now. Slow slowly starting to come. Yeah. And Calvin and I opened these about, I don't know, half hour ago. Yeah. Five minutes ago. That's yeah, I didn't know if there was a little bit of ethanol or if that's just a little bit of spice kinda on the nose. I get the cinnamon up front. Yeah. For sure there. But the cream cheese it's like it i it's like it's very Got a great mouthfeel. It's it's got a it's very thick on your tongue. Yeah. get more of that sweetness on the nose and more of the cinnamon on the palate. Kinda is that is that similar for what you guys get? Oddly enough reminds me a lot of we recently tried the those new the Jack Daniels, the High Angel share, Coy Hill. Okay. And it had that same kind of upfront cinnamon to it that was very different than some of the the the Boiler Hill was the other one we tried from the previous release. But reminds me a lot of that upfront kind of cinnamon I got on that one. But it's not overpowering. It's really nice. No, it it's just kind of a little little bit of a little that tingle on your tongue kind of like just little spice like enough to let you know that it's there, but not enough to Yeah, it doesn't just sit there as the dominant, you know. So kind of flavor there. I really like the Henry Kraver, the 10 Year that you brought. I wish I was I I was so on the fence when I got that down at the distillery 'cause it was a little pricey and then had I known I would have bought a few more while I don't know while I was there. Yeah. that's got great legs. Yeah. It does the mouth feels good and it's got that that legs. Yeah. So other than that Kraver, I think this is my favorite peerless I've had. I that's why I brought it home. Yeah, that that 10 Year Craver I think is in a league of its own on Peerless, right now. But yeah, this is nice. I mean that know, I keep the have one of the regular shelter double oaks, you know, that I have, but Yeah, as far as the single barrels go. This is nice. Mm. Did you try anything fun yet recently? So tried JT Mellick single barrel. I've done the tr I've done a lot of been exploring more into the craft world. So I've gone into JT Mellick, your Fiddlers, your Jimmy your high wire Jimmy Reds. Mm-hmm. Yeah, what you're just talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm starting to explore into those and I've found the ones that I really like and then there are some where I'm not too fond of but it's helping me kind of figure out what I like in a profile, whether it's I don't like citrus or I like more of that cinnamon spice or sweetness. Yeah. I tried W. H. McBrayer, their seventeen seventy six bottle, their w it was their two fiftieth release, but they only did seventeen hundred and seventy six bottles. So I tried it at Revival Vintage Spirits. yeah. Yeah. How was that? That was that was really good. I Go ahead, sorry. No, I I just can say that real caramely, real sweet, real nice, very, very s smooth. I mean Yeah. Speaking of like the the 250 bottles, the one that I would like to try and I I've was one they kind of I forgot about for a while. And then when I was in Chicago a couple of weeks ago I was at Benny's and they had it and I I think I'm gonna pick it up the next time I'm there was the that lost lantern. They did the it's a blended from all fifty states. There's distillate from all fifty states. Wow. And technically I I I think if I remember I was looking at the back of the bottle, it's technically two years because you have to put the youngest right aged product on there. Yeah. But there's something from every single state that they did as the two fifty, which as an NDP has to be Unbelievable, complicated experience to source that many barrels and do that blending. So to even source that and end up to have the next be the challenge of blending 50 barrels to come up with something. How do you even come up with what you're looking for out of 50 different well, at least if you get a bad one, it's it's easier to but does that mean you have to buy 50 barrels? I that I think. So it was I was listening to yeah, a podcast, The Pursuit Guys, recently and they were kinda talking about it as another NDP and that's what made me think of it because I had just been looking at it at Benny's and that's what they were saying, the the logistical nightmare of sourcing fifty well if it's fifty barrels, because it would be fifty barrels of each type from every state. You know how many bottles were in this millennium. I don't know, I would have to yeah. But you f you figure even if they got a deal. Yeah. Yeah. You know, a barrel's going for what? Eight, ten? Yeah. It's for a new summer. It's a big undertaking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So figure that was one I might, yeah, grab when you're just talking about, yeah, different craft and N D Ps and you know, everybody hopped on the two fifty bottles this year and Yeah. So And I haven't even opened the the Yellowstone two fifty yet. Well you did. It just ended up on the floor. Well, it just yeah, you're right. It just scattered across the floor. I I haven't gotten to mine either. A shame that I've been doing a little bit more buying than tasting lately, but we we we got a lot of things that we can start working our way through. Yeah. Right. I and I was on a buying hiatus, and then we went to Louisville. Well, there's an exception. Budget who? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. But yeah. And I had some of those ASWs. Yeah, you let me try the the Heartwood and the what was the name of the other one? I think it was the Soloist or Yeah, I think maybe Soloist, yeah. The Heartwood I think was the a little bit more a little bit higher proof, a little bit more full body. Yeah, I I really enjoyed that one and I I've I've heard a lot of good things out of Fiddler. Yeah. I I I have had a Fiddler, it was it was a Winthrop Liquors store pick and they sent sent me up a sample and it it was fantastic. They're doing some really good stuff down there. Yeah. Right now I know they are they're sourcing some stuff from MGP I but they also do have their own distillate and their own distillate is really, really good. And yeah. It's one definitely if it's in your area and you see it at a good price, I definitely recommend getting it. Yeah. Yeah, they were good, those two that you have you gave me to try. I really liked. So I'm trying to remember. I don't remember where the juice came from on this one. But it's all double oaked by Buzzard's Roost So they are making some of their own distillate. Okay, so that's what I was gonna ask. Are they an NDP? I couldn't remember. So they are making their own distillate now, but most of these are not their distillate yet because their stuff's so young. Yeah. But we actually part of the day sat and spoke with their master distiller who previously had worked at makers and Where else did he say? Trying to remember. But gave us a great tour and lesson. Like 'cause they were actually running the mash. They're running the still while we were there. And it was a great, great experience. It's got some color to it. yeah. I mean that's So now are they doing different char levels since they're double barrelling, so are they doing char one for all of them, char four? Char toast level one. So char it is a char one barrel. but they have different proprietary chars and toasts. I think they said something like seventeen that the that they're doing with independent stave company to make their barrels. And th they're all to bring out certain flavors, you know. Yeah. Yeah, nowadays Not only the char or the toast, but mm where are the barrels coming from and Yeah. No, this one Is it a is it a Kelvin barrel? Is it you know, there's so many yeah. Lots sweeter on the nose? Yeah, this has a little bit more of kind of that traditional sweetness. This is right around seven, eight years old. A lot of colour for seven or eight years old. Yeah. You know. And I think you get some of that like a French oak. You get some of that nice wood spice. Yeah. I recently tried the that Frank August, the the case study seven, I believe was the new one we had around here recently, which was I th I believe some sort of French oak and yeah, it kinda reminds me. So you get that little bit of spice. You know, that are they got that French Oak staves. The French Oak staves, yeah, kinda Yeah. Jason was a phenomenal host, you know, for us. And we actually ended up doing some chocolates too. yeah. There's a chocolate factory that they're store that across the street from them that they do chocolates specialized for every brand. that they have partnerships with and yeah. It was really good. Had this orange chocolate thing that just really went with this. You get some of that like a little bit of those oak tannins in there. You know, not from a really, really like say I mean maybe like that seven, eight years would kinda make sense. It's kinda like some of that little You know, a little bit of that bitter oak. You know, not in a bad way, but it's got a little bit more of that bite than something that's like a one more barrel char Yeah. So so you get it. Maybe it is the char. But it d it it it takes a backseat to the sweetness that stays on the palate. Like nor normally if you you talk tan tannins, you you start to get that bitterness in the sides of the mouth. It's yeah, it's not like that drying bitterness. Yeah, it's It's just a little bit of those kind of oaky tanninist, but yet not it not in a bad way. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. The the sweetness is kinda still the kind of lasting, yeah, dominant, yeah. Kinda note there. Nice. Yeah, that's nice. That's good. Yeah. Now did you did you get to try did you was there several different barrels and this was the one you selected on and then you got to see they also had a rye. Okay. And Steph loved the rye. Yeah. So we ended up getting one of the ryes as well. So I mean we can do that next. That's She got the thieve that one. I'll post the picture. Yeah. It's such a good you know, I did it at Dark Arts and thieved from all the different barrels and it's such a good experience to just get to try a bunch of different things. Yep. See what you like. And it it even the even the the white dog, the off the still is phenomenal. It's a good pop. It's a good pop. We'll let that one pop air for s You guys are ready. So this was Steph's pick. Steph's pick. Alright. A single barrel one thirteen point eight. Pretty good. So Jason went through the story that he was a he's got a a restaurant called Bourbon's Bistro. And he was one of the very first barrel picks done for a a store or restaurant. And But he will admit that he did not like rye. Like I I I want a sipping whiskey, I don't want a cocktail mixer. Until he started doing Yeah. You know. But his goal was to make it like a a more of a a bourbon drinker's rye. Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of us start off in bourbon. Say we don't like rye. Various reasons, maybe because you still hear rye, it's spicy, you know. You just hear the all the you hear all the costs doing Yeah, but I mean that's the way with most people have been with with like you said, ryes with single malts. Now you see single malts starting to pop up more and more often. Well, I'm still not I I I'm a I'm a rye convert, but I still haven't jumped the single malt fence yet, but No. And he did give us one that was a just there. Yeah. that was that had a lot of notes from a from a single malt. Yeah. and it wasn't Petey, but yeah, at the same time I I I got it. But it it had that the mouthfeel of a an old single malt scotch. So Yeah, it was good. Sorry, go Cal. I'm about to say it might be one of those things where you have to find a thing a bourbon drinker's single malt, like a bourbon drinker's ride. Yeah, I'm sure just haven't had the right single malts yet, but Yeah. I do not like peat, so I'll be forced to say that. Is this kind of minty? I get a little bit of minty, I get a little bit of floor on that. Yeah, it's like a kinda Yeah, a mintiness to it, yeah. Like you could tell there's a rye there. Almost has like a mintiness to it. Like really nice kind of I figured you would like this. Yeah. Well I do. I I I fought ryes for so long and then once I realised which ryes that I liked, I'm like, you know, it was a a whole new opening but So I get I get the bite, the rye bite up front. But then it dissipates to a this really nice flavor. Yeah, it it doesn't last very long at all. No, and it's not as caramel sweet as the as as the bourbon, but I would say that it has got a great mouthfeel. It it's got a great texture. Yeah, I get like this. kind of spearmint nose to it. And you get that little bit of rye spice right at the very beginning of the palate, like you said. Like a spearmint sweet tea. Yeah. Yeah. And it does that little bit of minty kind of spiciness. Yeah, just goes away. Yeah, it is almost I almost get like that kinda like floral on the back end. Yeah. I get it a lot on the aftertaste, like I Yeah. Yeah, just kind of the lingering yeah, yeah, that's kinda kinda where I'm at. I love the aftertaste on this. I'll be the first to say that. Yeah. Yeah, that's nice. That's very Now you you're not a hundred percent sure. So the the the rye is ninety-five five. It is okay, because I actually was not gonna guess that it was ninety-five five. Yeah, I wouldn't ever guess that. Yeah. Yep. Maybe okay, so maybe a little bit of a younger ninety-five-five, but Right. You know, but then but then you do the double oaked part of it and it's like, if those will never loop into there. Yeah, typically When I buy something that's a ninety five five, I like something that's a little bit older in the ninety five five. So yeah, maybe a little younger. But yeah, you're right. If if it's double oaked ninety Okay, that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause it doesn't taste young. No. But it's just very different than some of the higher age ninety five five that I've had. But yeah, maybe that's that double oaked. I feel like that rye bite that you first get kind of dissipates with the age. Yeah. But so you still get the rye bite, but you also get the t the flavor of the older Yeah. It's real complex. And I feel like the taste just keep changing on the b back of the tongue. Yeah, I actually feel like this has a longer finish than the yeah. Yeah. Than the previous yeah, the bourbon that we had. I think, you know, on our trip, I think we picked up some good ones. So we we we did the the Peerless, we did we stopped at the Kentucky Artisan Distilleries, so Jefferson. We got a track side, which is a great wheated bourbon. got a single barrel of the Jefferson's reserve and that that was really good. The twin oak single barrel. got the M10 Rye. Got the Michter's 10 Rye. Did the of course you know with the the bottle your own got my private barrel from I did the Elijah Craig bourbon and that was really good. did got the maker's mark cask strength. Which you cannot get in Ohio. The the forty six casks. The forty six, yeah. Mm-hmm. We have those those age stated you know, the ones they came out with last year, but not the forty six. Mm-hmm. Not yet. Yeah. These two, the Buzzards Roost. I got a Monks Road, another Monks Road single barrel, wheated single barrel, which is really good. And That was about it. the old Forester one seventeen triple char. you did get the triple char, okay. I got two of those. Ooh. Yeah. So we'll have to open that. Mm. Yeah, you had you had quite the trip. And here comes the the fun part of our show. So I'm so glad I made it. that is awesome. Preston signed the bottle. So one of the things, one of the neatest things that happened was this is a 2019 Pappy 23, which means it predates Buffalo Trace. And they sourced juice from multiple places in the late nineties. And while we're out smoking cigars, I said, Do you know, you know, this Was twenty nineteen, it would have been distilled in nineteen ninety-six, you know, which juice it is. He's like, I I'll smell it and I'll tell you. Which is the the coolest answer ever, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You just don't medicine. Yeah, I don't need to Google it. Yeah. So so I pop it open, he takes it, he goes, that's Bernheim. Just like immediately, just that's Bernheim. I'm like, that's pretty cool. That is I think he's able just to do that like right off the bat. Smell it. I mean, yeah. In Bernheim for that that time period, the Bernheim juice was considered you know the best. So I've been sitting on this. for quite a while. I've had this bottle for a couple of years. Yeah. Didn't open it. There was there was two stipulations, yeah. I either retire or we do a podcast with the Van Winkles. You can be stingy, don't worry. Yeah, we'll we'll take a very stingy pour. Be more than happy with a stingy pour. Doing this with cigars was phenomenal. now which which cigar did you have? Because there's so we used the Pappy traditional. Okay. So there's a whole story on that. Yeah. so Drew Estate makes the Pappy cigars. Correct. They make the barrel fermented ones. Yes. And then they make the traditional. So Preston went through the story of Him and his dad, Julian, were down in Nicaragua at the the tobacco plantations, and they were smoking things called Willie's Blend, Willie Herrera, who was the master blender of tobacco or for Drew Estate. And the it was an unlabeled, it wasn't sold, it was just his his thing, and they loved it. And they said, Well, what if we just did these as cigars for Pappy's traditional. And they they agreed. So that's that's where that came from. Yeah. I have some of the barrel fermented ones. I've I've had some for a long time. They're they're good. You cannot put them with any other cigars. There it's such a strong smelling, yeah, that barrel fermentation. but I haven't had the traditional but that's what I the traditionals I figured it would be a little bit more traditional for you know versus that you know Well, we can go. I have a bunch. That barrel fermentation. Now I so so I've never had twenty-three. I've you know, you know I've I've tasted beer fifteen several times. What does the proof come to on this? This is this is ninety-five point six proof. Okay. That that makes sense because you get zero ethanol but but there's so much there. Again. Nice fruity sweetness. Yeah, there's there's so much aroma in that nose and absolutely zero ethanol to it. And it's not over oaked on the nose. No. At all. No. Not one bit. that's I can smell that for days. Yeah, yeah, I mean you don't even feel you don't even feel like you have to drink that. I mean the nose you could sit here and if I could make a candle of this you know that I'd be a a millionaire. Hopefully Pappyco's listening to this 'cause this would be Yeah. Yeah. You know, make make a fifty dollar candle. I'll buy it. Yeah. Of that yeah. Of that aroma. I don't care what the candle I mean the the legs Yeah. So that cheers. Cheers. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. No, thank you. That's just so s that's just so smooth. It's like drinking water at this point. But it's just so much flavor. You get the fruitiness, you get the you get that sweetness. You get a little bit a little bit of the oak. I don't I know a lot of people have said this is over oaked, but it's to me this is just Right. And and to have this while hearing the story about it, you know, that that to me, anytime I have this I'll I'll I'll think of that that experience. That was that was fantastic. And that's something you'll carry with you for a lifetime. You can't beat that. Yeah. But we were making the joke that once you have the cigars you you don't taste as much, you know. Yeah. But we had done the entire series at that point. You know, we had that was bottle number six. Yeah, I almost think there is a There's kind of a delicateness to this. Right. And I almost think, you know, having tried the fifteen several times, almost think like that fifteen would be maybe perfect to hold up to the cigar. Right. It's got a little bit little bit more of that punch, you know, to not let the cigar kind of overpower this. Yeah. 'Cause it is. It's it's actually it's very delicate for something with that much age on it. Yeah. Yeah. That may also be 'cause of the proof 'cause with the fifteen that's one seven. This one's Yeah, yeah, and that that definitely has higher proof than than this, but yeah, I do feel well it's And Yeah, I d I don't necessarily i it's not it's not over oaked out you know that is one of the things you tend to hear is that the twenty three's not worth it, it's over oak. Yeah. You get the oak presence, but it's not like Yeah, I I actually don't It's not like you're licking a tree. Like No, I don't think that oak is overpowering. I think it's perfect. Yeah. To be honest. I I You get that sweetness, that caramel, that that nice nose, the floral nose. I I I I think that all of the Van Winkle line has a certain nose to it. Yeah. And I it this this has that but at the same time i y it's like Maybe a hint of citrus. then just this really nice I I'm not gonna say strong, but I'm gonna say full flavor. You know, it it's just Yeah. Like that that tinge of citrus or that tinge of a little bit of leather, a little bit of spice. Just perfect. Couldn't wait to share this with you guys. Yeah. It's worth it. Thank you so much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get like the lasting end end end of my finish is that that kind of citrus to me. Yeah. You know, and to compare the Elijah Craig eighteen, right, that was one of the big knocks on that was that it's over oaked and underproofed, right? Right. that's for this, I think it lands that because yeah, I I've only heard and a lot of people scoff and like to come up with things because of the price tag of what this cost because nobody can get it at retail price. Right. yeah, I don't I don't think it has some of that Elijah Craig eighteen I think did have a little bit of that oaky bitterness and maybe it was a little bit too over oaked for the proof, but you don't you don't get that with that. You get a lot of that really rich oak flavor. Yeah. None of that proof there. And I liked the Elijah Craig eighteen. Yeah, I w we we did you and I had the the the podcast we did was the fifteen versus the eighteen when the fifteen just for and and I didn't not like the eighteen but to almost compare that there was you know when you get in those higher age and everybody likes to say, it's over oaked, it's over oaked. I'd argue the Elijah Craig eighteen is a little bit more over oaked relatively speaking than this, right? I I mean I think Because it's ha it's hard to get that that high aged oak with not a lot of that proof, right? Because you so Yeah. So I'm still on the finish, I just get this nice flavor. It just just kinda lasts. Mm-hmm. And I and I think that of of most of the Van Winkle stuff that well, all of it, the the finish is just always fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, how cool is it that you say just just let me smell it and I'll know. Yeah. Yeah. Just let me smell it. Yeah. Yeah. Now was there was there a distinct transition between you know, y you time frame wise between the Bernheim and What what came after Bernheim? So was Buffalo Trace the next after Bernheim? So they were finishing up the Stitzelweller stock. Stitzelweller, yeah. And in the late 90s. Yeah. So St Stitzelweller ceased in ninety-two. Yeah. And some of the stocks went to Canada of all places. So Julian was actually sourcing barrels from Canada of the original Stitzelweller stock. And then As he was transitioning from that, he sourced from Bernheim and then there was one other place. I I'd have to read the book again, yeah to remember. But he went to Bernheim and then two thousand two was Buffalo Trace. Okay. So And he So this was very close to the transition from Burnheim to Buffalo Trace. Okay. Yeah. All right. so This is fantastic. Yeah. And this is a UK bottle. Found this. Yeah, I I saw the sticker. I remember I know the story of when you got it. And I saw the sticker when you you pulled it out there. Yeah. And it's now signed, so. Which how many people can say that? I mean. Yeah. I What an experience. Yeah. And and and honestly, he was such a class act, just humble, down to earth. Yeah. Just it was really a great experience. Yeah. we get there, you know, and of course his office is like a museum. Yeah. There are literally fifty hundred bottles of old Fitzgerald from the forties, fifties, sixties, different displays like his his coffee table is is one of those clear ones that has bottles through it that have not been opened. I was telling Calvin before we started the podcast, they were bringing over boxes from Julian's that were just boxes and boxes cases of bourbon to be cataloged. And Alex, my buddy Alex who's with us, he's pulling out and he's like, a nineteen forty nine old Fitzgerald, very old Fitzgerald. Nine here's a old Riff Van Winkle twenty five year. Twenty-five. You know, like this is the kind of stuff that's in these boxes that he's like, yeah, we're gonna catalog those. Yeah. We have He was telling the story about they had a Thanksgiving where Julian would Fry turkeys. So they'd fry like twenty five families' turkeys at their house. So they opened one of those big gallons of Old Fitzgerald, one the one on the tip things, and they got about halfway through it with everybody coming over. But that's what they drank all morning frying turkeys was was the the old Fitzgerald. So it you know, you you you realize, I mean, these people are no different than us. They're yes, they they They have a last name but they're just different. They're like us their enjoyers. Family lineage, yeah. Maybe but But isn't that what it's, you know, all about is is the stories. Yeah. The stories of you know how you got whatever bottle and who you shared it with and that time on Thanksgiving when you drank half of a Yeah, yeah. Fried turkeys, right? Yeah. You know, you know, I think of the stories from my grandfather that you know, that's why I got into all this. So it it's yeah. It it's very fitting. Very fitting. Yeah. And that's, you know, half of the stuff that I come across and end up with, you know, we we were texting earlier, I'm like, Well I got this. I got this we could we could do this. We you know, and I I we I end up with all these things and sometimes don't have time to get open and try myself and I'm like, well let's we got this to do next time and you know so it's it's half the fun how you get to open up and Yeah. Yeah, share with. Yeah. Well, we got a bunch more to do. we're Calvin and I were talking before we started the You know I've got a high west prisoner share. I was looking at that over there. I thought that might have been new. Yeah. We've gotta do that one. All right. of course the Jeffersons and then the private barrel. from Elijah Craig. so yeah, I I've got it's we still haven't opened the Tom Foolery stuff. the Yellowstone two fifty. Yeah, we didn't But speaking of that, got I will have Jason's horseshoe. And you you were really busy. I don't know if you got in on that one. You were down you know. I was you know, I saw it and I yeah. I know. I gotcha. I got one, yeah. Thank you, sir. I got one. Thank you. the horseshoe. I've got quite a few wild turkey things that we still need to get into. Both new and old. I am I am looking forward to that. Yeah. Yeah. yeah, the the OADE. yeah you're gonna like round work. Yeah. Yeah. I'll have to ask you a question about that. Yeah. So so Calvin left a a sample for Steph of that OADE 50 year, right? So so she took it from up here. She's got it hidden upstairs. Yeah. 'Cause she's like, I don't want anybody to drink that. I wanna try that. Yeah. So it it's upstairs. Well they had the they had it available the other day and It's I th yeah, it's definitely worth it. Yeah. So we'll bring that on too. Yeah. All right. Well, hey. Thanks for coming over, gentlemen. Thank you. Yeah. Appreciate it. Please like, subscribe, share, go through, leave comments. Be like Nick's dad. Dave, Dave, I want some good comments out of this. Yeah. We're thinking of you and Yeah. Keeping you in mind on this one. So if you have any complaints, please email them to Bob. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All complaints. All complaints to Bob. Yeah. But it's going well. Appreciate it. Until next time. Thanks. Have a good night. Thank you.